Follow This is a new pop doc series from BuzzFeed and Netflix. When you read about doomsday preppers, or watch any films about them, you're most often seeing white survivalists. But BuzzFeed senior culture writer Bim Adewunmi was interested in finding out more about preppers who look like her. Bim also co-hosts the podcast Thirst Aid Kit with writer and poet Nichole Perkins. So today on the show, we brought in Nichole to interview Bim about her experience reporting this story and how long she thinks she'd last in a post-apocalypse world.
Follow This is a new pop doc series from BuzzFeed and Netflix. When you read about doomsday preppers, or watch any films about them, you're most often seeing white survivalists. But BuzzFeed senior culture writer Bim Adewunmi was interested in finding out more about preppers who look like her.
Bim also co-hosts the podcast Thirst Aid Kit with writer and poet Nichole Perkins. So today on the show, we brought in Nichole to interview Bim about her experience reporting this story and how long she thinks she'd last in a post-apocalypse world.
[Music]
Alexa: Welcome to You Can't Make This Up, a new companion podcast from Netflix.
[Music]
Alexa: I'm Alexa Diaz. I work at Netflix and I'm super excited to be hosting this week's episode. Every other week on You Can't Make This Up, we bring in a new interviewer to talk about different Netflix shows with special guests. And do you know what each story has in common? They're all surprisingly true. This week we're looking into the real lives of Black Survivalists. From people who have learned to live completely off the grid to those who do bomb drills right in the heart of Times Square. We first learned about the world of Black Survivalists in one of the episodes of Follow This—a new pop doc series from Buzzfeed and Netflix. Each episode is under 20 minutes and shadows a Buzzfeed journalist while they explore a new story. And the reporter who wrote about Black Survivalists is our guest on today's show, Bim Adewunmi. Bim is a senior culture writer at Buzzfeed and co-hosts the podcast, Thirst Aid Kit, with poet and writer, Nichole Perkins. Usually, Bim and Nichole talk about lust, desire and pop culture, but we thought it would be fun to bring in Nicole to interview Bim about her experience reporting on this story—and, how long she thinks she could survive in a post-apocalypse world.
Nichole: Hi, Bim.
Bim: Hello, Nichole. It's very odd to be looking across from you in a different studio.
Nichole: I know, in a different studio. In a different context, and, you know . . . imagine me interviewing you.
Bim: Yeah, that's interesting.
Nichole: I know. Okay, so let's get started.
Bim: All right.
Nichole: You have an episode of Follow This on Netflix about black survivalists.
Bim: I do.
Nichole: Yes. What made you decide to look into black survivalists and preppers?
Bim: Okay, so, it came to me via my friend Tihira [phonetic 0:01:47.7] who used to live in the Pacific Northwest and she had told me that there was a really interesting woman who called herself "Afrovivalist" and I went onto her website—which is a lot more polished now, post-Netflix, which is cool—but, on her website, there's a silhouette of a woman with an afro and a pair of heels and wearing a gun, like, on her body.
Nichole: Interesting.
Bim: And I was like, who the hell is that? I want to know. So, Tihira said, yeah, this woman is really into urban survivalism and on her website, Afrovivalist, she calls herself an urban huntress. And I was like, you know what, that's a solid song lyric but also, how interesting to see this person. I think for many people the idea of survivalism is forever enmeshed with whiteness and specifically violent whiteness. It's often seen as, you know, end of world scenario, the water wars, and every single "ism" of the current world being exacerbated by a massive event. So, white supremacy would get even more stringent and that looks like men with guns who are willing to "protect" what's theirs. And I think, for many people, the idea of survivalism looks like that. So, to find this woman who was in many ways the direct opposite of that—she's a woman, she's black. She wasn't like a young—she's not like 22, you know. She's like this experienced-in-the-world like, you know, an older woman and, for her, her stated goal was to prepare herself—to get ready. And I was, like, all right, I'm stressed out, but I want to know more. So, I kind of had the idea to write about her because that's what I do in my day job—I am a senior culture writer—and, so, I was preparing to kind of reach out and be like, hey, let's talk about this thing that you do. And then Buzzfeed and Netflix got together in a beautiful marriage and I spoke to my editor about it and she was like, oh, this could be really nice and visual. This could be one of your episodes for this series and I pitched it—I think, we pitched it—Carolina my editor, who is fantastic, and the whole crew was kind of like, invested from the get-go. I was like, all right, I want to do this thing that is about survivalism but hey they're black survivalists and I think we should not shy away from difference. I don't think a white survivalist is the same thing as a black survivalist mainly because the circumstances in which they exist in the world, as is, is not the same. So, to kind of complicate that, let's look at it in the context of survivalism.
Nichole: Yes, okay, so, what were some of the differences that you found with looking at black survivalists versus our idea of what a prepper is—not just, obviously, race, but also methodology, how they're going about it—all of that. What were some of the differences you found?
Bim: So, a big thing, I think, is that many people don't realize that survivalism actually can be quite expensive, you know. You have to get gear. You have to have a space. You have to collect. You have to find storage where you can put all the things you're collecting. And the costs add up. So, for many people, I don't think many people understand. I think the idea of them in some hovel somewhere, like protecting—it's like, yeah, but that takes money and I think for many people, yeah, survivalism is an expensive hobby/lifestyle choice. And I think in talking to so many people from the black survivalist community, it became very clear that they were conscious of the cost. So they didn't kind of like dismiss it—it was clearly an issue—and one of the guys I spoke to called Aton [phonetic 0:05:28.5], he was great because he was just kind of like, listen, when shit really hits the fan, you're not going to necessarily going to be able to access the things—like money literally will lose meaning. Like, what do you do? So, he was very interested, for example, in making stuff with found objects. So, he was someone who was kind of like, let's keep the costs low. Like, what do we need? How do we get them? And because we can't necessarily—not all of us can necessarily afford these bright, shiny new gas masks, for example. He essentially was kind of like, great, I'll teach you how to do that with a bottle or two bottles and some wire, some twine, or whatever. So, he was very much a case of kind of like you don't need the big money. The key thing about his particular movement is teaching people in the community. So, for him, it was more of an education. And that came up a lot.
I spoke to Afrovivalist and she said, you know, the big thing—I mean, I think she wasn't as complex as she could have been and I tried to push it and she just wasn't delivering. But she said, you know, the difference is, black people aren't connected to the earth anymore. And I was like, why do you think that is, and tried to kind of push her that way. But my feeling is, the move for so many black people from rural into urban spaces has meant that there has been a disconnect between them and, I guess, the things that are more classified as survival skills. And, so, that was a big thing—this idea of being unfamiliar with how to even survive—
Nichole: Right.
Bim: . . . outside of the creature comforts that we all know and love. I mean, I'm very much counting myself in this category. I joked at the time, you know, this felt to me—one of my favorite shows, you know, is The Walking Dead.
Nichole: Yes.
Bim: And that feeling for me of understanding that, oh, not only would I have not made it this far into the apocalypse, I would have died in like the pre-credit sequence—and actually fairly happily, just kind of like, you know what, fair enough. If you don't have the skills, just die. Like, it's not a problem. Just try to die quietly—that was my motto—like, don't attract zombies, just die quietly. So, I'm very aware of the fact that I have massive limitations. I, for example, cannot drive.
Nichole: Yes, that's one of my questions.
Bim: Well, I'm glad, because I've had so many thoughts and feelings about how—how would I be able to survive in the event of whatever, you know, the disaster looks like. I feel like I've weighed them all up and I'm like, huh, I might survive six more hours in this one but I'm dying quick either way. Like, so, it really kind of—I was amused on the one hand because I was like, well, all these people and their ideas—and then very quickly also kind of like, man, if shit did hit, this would be it.
Nichole: Yeah, you bring up that you're a city girl. You don't know how to drive.
Bim: No.
Nichole: Do you feel more inclined to learn now?
Bim: You know what, no because I did take some lessons—
Nichole: [laughs]
Bim: I know—don't look at me like that, I know, okay. I took some lessons—
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: . . . many years ago—more than a decade ago—I have special awareness. I understand how things fit. I'm from the city. I know not to touch people. Like, I can gauge distance quite well. In a car, that all goes out the window, no pun intended. Like, I literally sit down in the car, I put my hands on the steering wheel, I put my feet on the bloody pedals and I'm just kind of like, what is space? What is—I didn't understand.
Nichole: Right. And you need to learn how to drive stick, too.
Bim: Exactly, because—
Nichole: Because you never know what you're going to find when you're on the run.
Bim: Exactly.
Nichole: And you have to make due with what's there.
Bim: Exactly. This is it—so, there are so many barriers to learning but the key thing is me. I know that I am—like, I had maybe three, maybe two, lessons—and I know I should have stuck at it because that's what everyone tells you to do, but I was just kind of like, it's okay. Maybe this just means I was meant to be rich. And, so, it's fine. Like, somebody will drive me places.
Nichole: Yes, but you're not going to have a driver in an apocalypse.
Bim: I mean, you don't know my circumstances, Nichole, I might have a driver in an apocalypse.
Nichole: Okay, okay, sure, all right. And then, also, driving with glasses is a whole different thing because—
Bim: Well, that's it.
Nichole: . . . your peripheral is, like, compromised.
Bim: Yeah, it is.
Nichole: And you have to adjust for all that kind of stuff.
Bim: Well, I think about that as well—just the things that we have grown used to. I wear glasses. I don't think I would ever allow myself to get Lasik or any kind of laser surgery to repair my eyesight, but in the event of an event, what do you do with all these things that we have kind of folded into modern life?
Nichole: Right.
Bim: Like, where would I get my contact lens prescription? Do you understand?
Nichole: Yes, we'd have to mob through a couple of Warby Parkers or something like that.
Bim: Yeah, but what happens when they run out?
Nichole: Hey, I don't know.
Bim: Exactly. You see? So, like—
Nichole: Yeah, you have to be very careful with everything.
Bim: I mean, sure. But that can't happen. And I think that was the thing—this idea that you know you have to kind of divorce yourself from your reality and right now and it does seem insane. And I think the thing that I found very much with these people is they know they sound insane. They're aware that they look odd or weird or whatever. And you know I've had people kind of comment afterwards and go, to me, you know, prepping is a sick, sick past time because it's kind of like the glee with which these people are preparing for the worst. And I was like, ehh, not so much, because when I spoke to these people, a lot of the time—especially for the black survivalists—one of the most radicalizing moments for them was Hurricane Katrina. And that's when they thought to themselves, hold on. The government doesn't give a shit about us.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: And I think that was a real kind of, you know, it was a massive gong of like, pay attention, for these people—where it was kind of, like, I had my suspicions, folk lore—in terms of, like, community myth and community stories and community history—like, everything becomes a bit of everything, right? It's never just the straight facts—there's all these other bits added on. So, you can argue with yourself and kind of go, ehh, I guess some of this must be, you know, kind of just hyperbole. And then Hurricane Katrina happened and in front of the nation and the world, suddenly it was, like, oh, it's not hyperbole. All of it is happening as it would. People were abandoned. People died. People were forgotten. People who, you know, support was withdrawn very quickly, if offered at all.
Nichole: Right.
Bim: And it was like this massive kind of like eye-opening experience for many people and one I spoke to Afrovivalist—when I spoke to Aton—when I spoke to Bettine [phonetic 0:11:18.6] and Crystal Energy—they were just saying essentially, Hurricane Katrine taught you that, if you don't look out for yourself, no one will look out for you.
Nichole: Right.
Bim: And I think that, for me, was like, this idea as a galvanizing moment for them, that was interesting for me as well because I'm not American—I'm black, but I'm British—and I think we haven't had such a moment in terms of, like, natural disaster for black Brits—
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: . . . which is not to say we need one in order to get ready.
Nichole: Right.
Bim: But, just this idea of one unifying moment where, I suppose, arguably the government's content was laid bare for, like, poor communities or communities of color and often where those two intersect and I think that was, for them, a real eye opening moment and many of them—in fact, all of them—brought up Hurricane Katrina as a turning point for them.
Nichole: I wonder if that is also one of the differences between white preppers and black survivalists—their concern is seemingly more about what happens in the fallout of a war or, you know, they're just trying to get off the grid period—whereas these black survivalists are very much concerned with environmental racism--if they don't necessarily call it that—
Bim: Right.
Nichole: . . . so, is that something that you saw? Would you say that that's a fair assessment?
Bim: I think so. I think they were very aware of the intersections of specifically government policy and how they live their lives. Like, I think that was a very important thing—they are so—I suppose—I mean, they do have a similar thing which is that something bad will happen soon, which I think they do have in common with white survivalists—this idea that, you know, there's that Tom Hanks' character on SNL who kind of has quite a lot in common with, like, he's this rural white man—
Nichole: Yeah, yeah.
Bim: . . . and, you know, I mean he has this distrust of the government—is something that, you know, black people understand. Like when he's—but I think where it kind of deviates is, essentially, whiteness protects.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: And I think, for black survivalists, there is a very clear note that we can't trust the government but, also, we will not be protected, you know?
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: So, on the one hand, you can say, everyone's justified to not trust the government—some people are more justified than others, like, there is history in place to suggest that when it really goes down, you will be the first to be forgotten or to be kind of cast aside, or whatever. And I think, for black survivalists, there is that very, very present knowledge because things are not—I mean, things aren't perfect for anyone, but they're arguably more imperfect, right now, for black and brown folks or poor folks or where the two kind of meet—than they are for white people. So, there's an urgency to it—
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] Yeah.
Bim: . . . which is kind of like, we're barely surviving now—if things were to go really bad, whether that be an environmental problem or war or whatever—we would not be looked after, doubly—and I think that was—that's the driving force of kind of, like, things are bad now, so imagine how much worse they could get?
Nichole: Right. I want to go back to Afrovivalist—does she live completely off-grid? I understand you have to protect her anonymity and, so, you can't say where she lived, or where you went, or her real name—but, is she completely off-grid? Does she have a day job? Like, what does she have—how does she earn money to get the gear that she has?
Bim: Well, she's—listen, Afrovivalist was impressive. Like, I suppose at the back of my mind I had harbored an idea that I was going to kind of, like, smile indulgently and kind of be like, okay—but then I met her and I was like, you know what, she's talking sense so she does have a job.
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: She has a family, she has children and so on, but she's also someone who, I think—she talks a lot about her father who had been in service—I forget which branch—but she was saying how he loved to hunt, he taught her, and she was someone who kind of, like, had a real moment where she was like, I need to go back to the land. And, so she did that. But she does have a job and she's been collecting for years—she has plans to eventually be fully off-grid. But, at the moment it's kind of like a—almost like a weekend—she drives to her place off-grid—which was one of my favorite captions in the whole episode was, like, you know—
Bim/Nichole [overlapping 0:15:19.9] Off-grid USA.
Bim: And I was like, yeah, I made it. But, I thought that was, you know, she's not operating without a plan. This is not just something that she kind of wanders in and out of—this is everything she's doing right now she said is to make sure that she can eventually go off-grid—even before anything happens.
Nichole: Interesting.
Bim: Yeah, she's just ready to kind of be done with it. She's just kind of, like, just let me free and, you know—she hunts.
Nichole: Yeah, let's talk about the turkey hunt—
Bim: Let's talk about that, yeah.
Nichole: Was that your first experience on a hunt? Did you feel like it changed the way you approach meat after that?
Bim: You know what, no. Meat is bloody delicious and seeing a creature disemboweled and whatever, not a problem. I mean, I know I look pretty taken aback when she's—
Nichole: Yeah, you had some nervous laughter happening.
Bim: . . . disemboweling the turkey. I mean, it's—for me—okay, so this is the thing. So, I grew up in Britain and also in Nigeria. Nigerians have no qualms about letting you know where your food is coming from, you know—we killed chickens every few weeks and we made a delicious stew and we ate that stew and it was great. And, so, I've never been—I've plucked chickens—I've never killed one myself, but I have held a still-warm chicken and plucked its feathers off and then fried the delicious meat and eaten it and kind of said thank you chicken, that was great.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] [laughing]
Bim: So, I'm not squeamish necessarily—I think I'm actually quite—I've got quite a hard-lined stomach—but there is something about somebody reaching into the cavity of a dead bird and pulling out her heart—or it's heart, I don't know—and saying, here, a heart. And I'm like, you know what, I don't need to see that. I understand that's a dead bird. I actually have a couple of feathers from that turkey.
Nichole: I was going to ask, did you take the heart as a souvenir?
Bim: I did not take the heart as a souvenir—
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: . . . because that would be sick. Instead, I took a couple of tail feathers and they are currently on my bedside table and I look at them and I remember Afrovivalist and our wonderful times together off-grid USA and I fall asleep with dreams of survivalism. It's wonderful.
Nichole: Okay, let's play a clip from that scene because it's too good.
[Clip Plays]
Nichole: So, did you spend the night out in the woods with Afrovivalist?
Bim: I did.
Nichole: How was that?
Bim: So, that was very—listen, again, I am someone who generally is quite hardy, I think. And, as much as I'm a sissy girl who has—you know, I love my comforts and whatever—I'm very adaptable. So, I'm like, all right, fine. I guess we're sleeping in the woods. The thing about the woods—and people forget when you've lived in cities for so long—is that the darkness is total.
Nichole: Oh, yeah.
Bim: So, at night, there is nothing. You cannot make out the shape of your hand in front of your face and I had forgotten that. And, so, that for me was kind of like, oh no, yeah . . . this could . . . okay, cool.
Nichole: Yeah [laughs]
Bim: So, there were lots of—I had to kind of like jee [phonetic 0:18:25.3] myself up to go and pee in the middle of the night because the outhouse was far away.
Nichole: So, there was like a physical building—
Bim: Yeah.
Nichole: . . . or did you just have to go a little hole?
Bim: I just had to go—no, it was a—I mean, essentially a hole, but it was in a constructed building. It had four walls—
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: . . . a little light, a little bug zapper.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] oh, interesting.
Bim: So, it was—yeah, listen—
Nichole: Okay, so that's—
Bim: . . . survivalists aren't trying to die of fucking malaria—like, they have plans. They have bug zappers—nobody enjoys a spider on the face.
Nichole: Well, see, I'm thinking they're just like, okay you need to go so many hundreds of feet away and dig a hole and then cover it up and—
Bim: No.
Nichole: . . . then come back.
Bim: Because—and this is the thing, survivalists are planners.
Nichole: Hmmmmm . . .
Bim: So, they don't do holes in the ground, they build a thing, like, okay if we're going to be off-grid, we're going to make sure that the water table is understood. We're going to make sure that we're planning, you know, the population of turkeys stayed the same—you know what I mean?
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: People are, by nature, these are the planners of the world. So, in fact, their digs are actually quite nice.
Nichole: Okay, okay.
Bim: So, yeah, in the middle of the night I'd have to go up—and that was the thing—so, you know, I had a head torch so I could see where I was going and, on the one hand, of course, there's the terror of the unknown. When the night is dark and you're just kind of, like, you know what, if I die, I die—which is fatalistic but also very me, actually quite British—kind of like, well, it's time. But on the other hand, I was oddly relaxed because I was like, you know, technically, I'm in the safest place I could be.
Nichole: Right, because you have someone who knows the area—
Bim: Right.
Nichole: . . . where everything is.
Bim: They know who I am.
Nichole: Yeah.
Bim: Like, and it's not as though I was going to, hopefully, die quietly, like I was going to just whimper or yell—someone would be like, wait, wait, what's that sound. And that's another thing, sound carries when there is nothing.
Nichole: Oh, yeah.
Bim: So, literally, a crunch of a twig—I was like, why is that so bloody loud? But everything is loud. So, you know what, it was terrifying for like five minutes. And also, I was like, oh my God, this is what giving in feels like—I was like, oh okay, come on in.
Nichole: Hmmmm . . . yeah.
Bim: Yeah, that was great. So, yeah, that was the wildest night I spent. Every other time I was asleep in my own bed for the rest of the episode, but, yeah, to spend time with Afrovivalist so we could get up early enough to go hunt turkeys, I had to sleep out there in the wild and it was lovely—the air was crisp, you know—we literally, me and the crew, we went looking at stars. I don't know how to star gaze, so I was told by a wonderful PA—she was basically pointing out—it felt very much like a meat queue, which is actually very odd, but when she was showing me, she was like, that's the big dipper and I was like, oh, that's the dipper. And she was like—you know, it was great. I felt very kind of like—I was like, wow, you know what, put some romantic jazz music on this and we've got ourselves a date. Like, it was just lovely. So, yeah, it's absolutely beautiful, absolutely peaceful. I can see why—so, when I spoke to Afrovivalist the next day and she was saying, you know, I have peace of mind. On the one hand you do think to yourself, hmm, I guess, sis—but, on the other, I'm like, you look pretty happy. Like, the idea of planning gave her joy. The idea of being prepared for something gave her joy and it gave her peace. She was saying how she didn't feel safe. She was stressed out.
Nichole: Do you think that that comes from being prepared or just also being, like, I'm going to survive and you're not?
Bim: I imagine there's some of that in there.
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: Because we are sincerely—this didn't make it into the episode—but we were like, you know, does your family—I bet your family is really glad that they have you and she was like, I've told them to prepare.
Nichole: Oh, so she doesn't take them out with her?
Bim: Like, some of—well, she asks and that's the thing.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: She extended the invitation and she said, come on, let's learn this, you know, and her family she was like, you know, they're very girly—her sister and her mom—she was like, so they just didn't. And I was like, okay, what does that mean? And she was like, I guess it means what it means. And I was like, man, that's hard. But, also, she's planning her life based on her needs.
Nichole: Yeah.
Bim: And, so, if her family is not willing to get on board, she's kind of like, well, you know . . .
Nichole: So, she's fully prepared to leave them behind?
Bim: Well, not prepared—resigned to it—
Nichole: Resigned, okay.
Bim: . . . if push came to shove—she's kind of like, I've extended this—you know, she was talking about teaching her grandson how to shoot. She got him a little bow and arrow for his birthday recently and I was like, okay Afrovivalist. She was—yeah, she was someone who I think—yeah, part of it was—I think anyway, I don't know— you'd have to ask her—but, I think part of it is kind of like, I'm prepared and you're not.
Nichole: Yeah.
Bim: And when the shit hits the fan, you'll see. But, I think most of it was just sort of like, she said how she felt so, you know, she was talking a lot about the current administration and she was talking about how it felt very kind of like, good 'ol boys and not really for her. And, so, she wasn't sleeping well. She was wondering what might become of her. Katrina had opened her eyes to this thing—various hurricanes and disaster relief and all that stuff—and she was like, wait. I can make plans. I can do stuff. And I think, you know, that was actually kind of—I suppose it was very—it was—I found it fascinating. I'm not sure I could relate 100 percent, but I understood.
Nichole: Yeah, these survivalists that you talked to in the episode seem very confident in that it's not a matter of prevention, it's more of a when, not if.
Bim: Right.
Nichole: Like, they will be in these scenarios, it's definitely happening. Can you speak more to their confidence about the fact that, in some kind of way all hell is going to break loose and we're going to have to survive on our own and how does that affect their day-to-day activities? Are they anxious people, or, you know, how do they go about their daily "regular lives?"
Bim: Right, so I think for someone like Aton, who has been doing this for such a long time, he's tired of—he kind of got concerned about what might happen—I think he kind of looked around one day in New York and was like, we are ripe for something terrible. And he spoke a little bit about, you know, how he had somehow foreseen or at least had an idea that something like 911 might happen.
Nichole: Because he's been doing disaster preparedness classes since 1989?
Bim: Yeah, he's been on this.
Nichole: Yeah.
Bim: Like, he's not new to this, he's true to this, and I kind of respect that—like, this is consistent. This is someone saying, look, I know what I sound like—I know what I look like, but, trust me. Something is coming and part of that, I think for him--the justification came after the attacks on September 11 and I think that kind of sharpened his zeal where he was kind of like, all right, what we need to do is learn how to protect people. And I think that's why, for example, the thing about teaching people how to use gas masks—and how to make them, rather—that's such an important thing to him because, in his mind, the event, Capital E, might be anything. I think people always think that preppers are preparing for some kind of war and it's like, nah, it might not even be that, it could just be a series of terrible environmental disasters—
Nichole: Right.
Bim: . . . and the way global warming works out and so on and so forth—no one can quite predict what it will be but they are—yeah, they are—I wouldn't say even confident, I think they're just, again, resigned. They know something is en route—these are people who kind of study weather patterns and they look at—I don't know—the distribution of wealth and they're kind of like, ehhhhh, something doesn't quite curl all the way over, so we have to make sure that, in the event that it kind of uncurls so horribly, we're able to kind of survive and our communities can thrive despite that. And, in many ways, you know, some of them said the thing about, you know, well, we're actually better disposed to this than others because we have been dealing with so little in terms of, like, resources, that maybe that makes us more adaptable. So, there was that. For people like Bettine and Crystal Energy, the couple who were kind of very interested in making sure that there are legally earned fire arms for many people in the black community—that also became—you know, that thing I was saying before about government policy and how, you know, just social understanding of weapons and so on—I think, again, the idea that white people love to play with guns, but black people don't because what it looks like when a black person is holding a gun is very different from what it looks like when a white person is holding a gun.
Nichole: Right.
Bim: And Aton, for example, kind of had a bit of a black panther background and he had gone to the camps as a child and he had—the idea of self-reliance, the idea of self-sufficiency—like, these things are not new concepts to them. They had been kind of thinking about this for so long and they've been kind of like, percolating for so long and, so, when they grew up, of course, they fell back onto these things that are so familiar to them that they know and that is the idea that, if you don't look after yourself, no one will. And, so, the self-reliance thing, I think for—especially for Bettine and Crystal was kind of like, if we were to accumulate—if we were able to kind of protect ourselves and all that stuff, how would we—what would that look like? And the answer is, for them, legal weaponry. Like, you know, they spent a lot—I went to a community meeting that they did up in Harlem—and they were talking about things like, you know, here is the process if you want to legally own an buy a gun, here is what you're required to do. So they have these workshops where they are essentially teaching black people who traditionally have been kind of left out of owning guns—
Nichole: Right.
Bim: . . . and they're kind of like, no, this is important. You need to know how to do that and for Bettine, he was kind of saying, well you need to protect what you've got. And you need to also be able kind of—beyond protecting—just defend yourself because, if things were to go south, you know, human beings are notoriously, you know, under a little bit of pressure, they go feral, fairly quickly.
Nichole: Yeah, yeah, I mean we see that in all the post-apocalyptic T.V. shows and movies where people become desperate—
Bim: Yeah, I mean, we even see it on Black Friday—
Nichole: Yeah, yes.
Bim: . . . so, how much more so when—like, people are pummeling themselves for like the $300 T.V.
Nichole: Right.
Bim: They'll do so much more for survival, right?
Nichole: Right, yeah.
Bim: So, again, you're urge to roll your eyes is tempered with, actually, he's not wrong.
Nichole: Right. You shot this episode before you went home for the summer, back to London—
Bim: Yeah.
Nichole: When you went home, did you find yourself looking at the city, like, okay, this is my escape route. Did it affect how you look at your city now?
Bim: A little bit. I went home, to London, and I was with friends and we went for a little walk and a coffee around Monument—which is a part of Central London—which commemorates the great fire of London—
Nichole: Mmmm. Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: . . . in which the city was decimated in many ways—and, looking at that and thinking to myself, oh, yeah, there was a disaster. It happened right here. And, you know, you're looking at this massive thing they've built and they're talking about where it started—we were in Pudding Lane where the fire started and kind of raced across St. Paul's Cathedral is in the distance, and so on—and, so, I did think to myself, huh. If there was a fire right now of the same magnitude, what would that look like for me? Or a disaster of that kind of, like, you know, reality altering disaster where you see it—it's taking stuff from you. I think, yeah, I was a little bit more aware. But, again, came the ugly, fatalistic but also deeply realistic feeling of, huh, I guess I'll die then.
Nichole: [laughs] It's not funny, but it's—
Bim: But, it was just kind of like, because you think about it, there are so many of us on the planet. There are so many of us in cities, there are so many of us clueless about how to do anything. So, on the one hand, I was like, maybe I'd survive a little bit longer than the average person, right? Thanks to my exposure to these people and, you know, the ways in which they live their lives. But, on the other hand, really dig deep down. What would—how far would that knowledge get me? So, this, for me, has been like a taster. I do have the bug-out bag that Afrovivalist prepared for me.
Nichole: Right, yeah.
Bim: That is literally in my hallway. And, so, I'm kind of like, well—
Nichole: Did you add anything to it beyond what she shows us?
Bim: I put a couple pairs of socks in there because I get cold feet all the time. So, I was like, you know, customize the bug-out bag for yourself.
Nichole: [laughs] yeah.
Bim: I put some wooly socks in there.
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: But, you know, I guess, for me, it's kind of like, just understanding principles that you can carry into any disaster scenarios. So, I have batteries and like a torch in my bag and just little things—everything that I have is just in case, just in case and, again, I suppose the odds are not that something won't happen but if they did, like, you should have a torch and some batteries—
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative] yeah.
Bim: . . . in your bag. You should do that. That's not—these are not a lot—everything that they said was not illogical. It may have seemed fantastical but none of what they were saying was illogical. It was based in a very, very real reality for them, like, this wasn't—they weren't dreaming of scenarios. The shit was real.
Nichole: Yeah. You have met with the survivalists and you've got your bug-out bag in the hallway.
Bim: Yep.
Nichole: So, if you were to open your door, step outside, and Rick Grimes was there, like, shit has just gone down—are you ready? Let's go.
Bim: [laughs] okay. Yeah.
Nichole: Do you feel confident that you could survive?
Bim: I'd be like, Rick, let me put my boots on. Yes, I feel confident. Yeah, I mean, I have some knowledge now that I did not have before.
Nichole: Hm-hmm. [affirmative]
Bim: And I have new ways of thinking that I did not have before, so I do think that, yeah, I'm better prepared. Before, you know, in the program I said, I might not make it to the pre-credit sequence, I could like do a solid season. Like, I could survive a solid season.
Nichole: Oh, that's significant.
Bim: You know, I feel like, that's the job of so many journalists, right? You go in with zero knowledge and you come out the other side a veritable expert on the other side. I'm not quite expert level. I cannot, for example, fire a rifle. Afrovivalist had—we went hunting, you know. But, you know, yeah, I suppose—I mean, I can't quite mimic a turkey call, but I could learn how to do so.
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: And I think my brain is wide open. I'm like, well, let's learn. Let's see what's what. And, yeah, I suppose I have a better understanding of the idea of, I don't know, filtering the air or whatever. Or filtering water. Or keeping yourself safe and warm and all these other things. Yeah, it's not—you know, I'm not Bear Grylls. I'm not out there hiking through the Amazon, or whatever. But, I also think, yeah, I could live.
Nichole: Okay.
Bim: I mean, I don't have to die pre-credit now.
Nichole: Yeah.
Bim: Like, now I have some skills. I've picked at least—at least seven skills up and I feel like that would extend my life by about a season's worth of activity, yeah.
Nichole: All right, excellent. Well, I'm excited for what you're going to teach me at some point.
Bim: I mean, who said I want to teach you? Maybe I'm trying to protect my own resources?
Nichole: Oh, okay, you just want to leave me out there to die, that's fine.
Bim: Listen, we're all God's children. He'll look after you, it's fine.
Nichole: Well, thanks, Bim.
[Music]
Alexa: That was Bim and Nichole. You can check out their podcast, Thirst Aid Kit, with new episodes that come out every Thursday. But, before we let them go, let's find out what they're watching on Netflix. It's time for, What You Watching, where we take a sneak peak at our guests' "continue watching" list.
[Music]
Nichole: Well, Bim, what are you watching on Netflix now? Like, what's got your attention?
Bim: Okay, so, I am the worst person because I use my Netflix as my background noise all the time. So, sadly, somewhat basically, I have a lot of Friends in my "most viewed" or at least my viewing activity—so a lot of Friends, around Season four. That seems to be my sweet spot. But, also, I watched To All The Boys I've Loved Before.
Nichole: Of course, yes.
Bim: I still love it. I watch it and it just fills—it's like a hug in a movie. So, shoutout to Jenny Han for writing an amazing book and shoutout to Netflix for producing it. It's given me—it's given me all my 15-year old feelings. Also, I watched Good News which is this comedy about—it's a workplace comedy—it's in the vein of 30 Rock, a little bit—Better Off Ted a little bit. It's, yeah, it's a weird one. It's funny but, also, I'm like, why am I watching this?
Nichole: It only had one season?
Bim: One season, so far. Created by Tracey Wigfield. I laughed a lot and some of the jokes, I was, like, this is stupid but I laughed a lot so . . . who's the fool? I really enjoyed that, actually. So that's what's on there. It's all good, though. What are you watching?
Nichole: Oh, wow, okay, so I've been watching a lot of murder mystery things—so, Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries—
Bim: Nice.
Nichole: Which I've already seen three times already, but I keep going back to it.
Bim: Yeah, it's a great series, that's why.
Nichole: Yeah, Midsomer Murders.
Bim: Oh, yeah, see that's that British stuff I was talking about. That's the stuff Americans love to consume from Britain. There you are fulfilling the stereotype.
Nichole: Yes, yes, I love a good mystery—a good, cozy mystery.
Bim: Yeah.
Nichole: And, then, also Frasier. You will have to stream Frasier into my casket, my urn—and I don't know, into space—wherever I end up.
Bim: Into the apocalypse.
Nichole: Yes. I love Frasier so much. And, so, that is—yeah, that's pretty much all I'm watching.
Bim: That's your background noise is Frasier.
Nichole: Yeah, yeah.
Bim: Yeah, I've seen it in your house. Just come into the house right, Nichole? Just Frasier's on.
Nichole: Yes.
Bim: It's great. It's wonderful. I love it.
Nichole: It's my favorite.
[Music]
Alexa: And that's it for this week's episode. We'll be back in two weeks with a special episode all about Making a Murderer, Part 2. The highly anticipated series is coming back to Netflix on October 19th, but we're launching an exclusive with directors, Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos, on October 17th. So, stay tuned for that and even more Making a Murderer content right here on You Can't Make This Up. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify and wherever else you get your podcasts. Make sure to subscribe, rate and review this show. It helps other people find it and generally it makes me happy. You Can't Make This Up is a production of Pineapple Street Media and Netflix. Our music is by Hansdale Hsu. I'm Alexa Diaz. Thanks for listening.
[Music]
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